I am so excited to have Holly back on the show today. You guys gave me to me so much just sweet feedback after our first conversation. And it was so fun. So Holly has a book coming out and set timbers. So when this episode airs, we'll actually be launch week for the book. So we were able to time that really well.
So I'm excited about that. So when you. As you're listening now can purchase her new book, the powerful purpose of introverts, why the world needs you to be you and I have been so excited about this book ever since you told me about it after we recorded last time. And so Holly, I'd love for you to start by just telling us a little bit about your heart behind the book and how it all came to be.
Yes. Well, I feel like it's a book I've been planning on it. We're writing since fourth grade. When I got interested in how we're wired and personality, you want to tell my mom, I was going to write this book. She said, of course you are in fourth grade, you did your science project on. Kevin Lehman's birth order book and analyze all your little friends to see if they met up with the characteristics.
So, um, then I discovered I was an introvert when I was in college and went on to read books about that. And that has been really transformational for me, but I felt like there wasn't really anything that incorporated a faith perspective into that conversation, or that really focused on the strengths that introverts bring to the world, which I feel like are needed more than ever before.
Or, and so I've been really grateful that there's more of a conversation about introverts happening, but I just felt like it was incomplete. So I hope this book will fill in some of those gaps. Yeah. That's awesome. I totally agree with you. And that's why I've been just so excited about it. So I'm curious, when you said in college, you realized that you were an introvert, was it more of like you just.
It's kind of unpacking the self awareness of your personality, or did you take a test? How did you discover that? And then what do you wish somebody would have told you back during that time? Yeah, it was one evening at a campus ministry and they had a speaker talking about personality types and it was one of those moments.
It's like a photograph in my mind. Like I remember where I was sitting on this old gray carpet, what I was wearing, red shirt and Jean shorts, like, yeah. No out so clearly cause they use the word introvert and I had never heard it before and I instantly just felt less alone and more understood and began to look into it for myself.
But for a lot of years I still define being an introvert by what it wasn't that I didn't love small talk. I didn't want, I go to parties every night and it's taken me a long time to realize that. Not the most important part of the story, or even the biggest part of this story that the flip side is our strengths and how God designed us and all of those things.
I wish back then someone had said, you know what? You are intentionally created this way on purpose for a purpose. And I would say that to everyone listening, introvert or extrovert, I wish someone had said you had nothing to prove. You don't need to change who you are. You can just, just grow into more of who you are, or, and I think that's the word that God does in our lives.
A lot of times we think I want to change this part of who I am, or I want to get rid of it completely. And God's saying actually, that's. There for a purpose. I just want to refine it and transform it. And so I wish I had known that back then because I spent a lot of years trying to be someone I wasn't, which led me to the brink of burnout, contributed to some struggles with anxiety and depression and different things.
And I wish I'd just known then that it was absolutely more than okay. To be an introvert, to be exactly who I was. Yeah, I think that's really freeing, you know, to just stand in that and then. You know, then be able to put those boundaries in place or whatever that is for you, maybe that is necessary for you to thrive and exactly who God made you to be.
So I think that's, that's really powerful and I'm excited as I was kind of through the book. I haven't read it cover to cover yet. I'm excited too. I love the letter that you write. Two extroverts and I would consider myself an extrovert. So I was, I was drawn to that. I, I flipped to it and I read it. Yeah.
I just appreciated how, you know, not only did you write this to encourage introverts, but I think it's such a powerful message for extroverts who love introverts. Um, I was, I wanna, I want to say that because, you know, that's something you intentionally did in the book that I really appreciated and I'm excited because I do, I do have a lot of introverts in my life and I want to know how I can love on them and cheer them on better.
And so I'm excited that you did that and that, that was, and one of my biggest fears in writing the books. Well, the book was that extroverts would think I was playing favorites with introverts, you know? Yeah. And it wasn't that it just happens to me. I am an introvert. I, you know, that's where I'm coming from, but I feel just as strongly, that extroverts should be exactly who God created them to be, because I think we're a complimentary pairing.
It makes me really excited when I look at how we're designed. I'm like, we are meant to go together and we are better. Together. And so when everyone is being who they're created to be introvert or extrovert, that's when look like the body of Christ and reflect the image of God. So I'm so glad that was helpful for you.
And I say the book is for introverts or people who love leader share life with. One. And so I talked to someone yesterday, he said, I just read the book and my husband's an introvert and I'm an extrovert. And we had this huge aha moment in our marriage. And so that's so cool. So glad. So thank you for mentioning that, because that is my heart.
Yeah, and I did create a one minute. What percent introvert are you quiz? So I actually have a lot of people say, I thought I was an extrovert, but I'm actually an introvert. So might be interesting. I need to go take it. So there's a lot. I mean, I feel like most personality tests measure either on a scale or they tell you, you know, either way.
And sometimes I know there's one in particular, I took for a job in the past that put you on a scale, like on a spectrum, I guess. And I was. Like maybe 10% on the other side towards extrovert in the context of that test that depending on the situation, or I guess how long I had been with him, people, et cetera, could flip either way.
And that was interesting to me because I do see that to be true in my life. I think. Being around people fills me up, but I also have a capacity for that. And when I, that I need to be by myself, you know? So I do know that I have a little bit of both, but there's just me. That's filled up by people. Yeah.
Yeah on a continuum because none of us are a hundred percent introvert or extrovert. We all lay in somewhere on a continue and we all use both parts. Our introvert partner extrovert part is kind of like being right or left handed. And so we use both our hands all the time, every day, it's just for certain tasks.
And in certain situations we naturally use one more. And that's what it's like to be an introvert or extrovert. That we all have both, but there's one that we naturally feel more comfortable with and are wired to have more strengths in. Yeah. That's so interesting. And yeah, that kind of goes into the next question, which is introversion and extroversion.
Yeah. Are not about our personality, which is, I think how we label it so often, but rather how we're physically wired. And so is there anything else in that, that you would want to kind of explain to listeners. Yeah. I was amazed when I started really digging into the research and the studies about introvert and extroverts, that it is physical, that it really comes down to brain science.
So short version, we differ in three primary ways, the primary neurotransmitter, which is just a chemical messenger in our brains that we rely on. There's one called dopamine. That acts kinda like caffeine that revs us up and energizes us. Extroverts, I'm more drawn to that and they need more of it.
Introverts are kind of like, I'm good. I have a good level of dopamine already. And introverts are more drawn to a set of Coleen, which is the neurotransmitter that's released when we turn inward and, or reflective or in quiet or listen. Stimulating environments like coffee with one friend. So it's more like T so that's one way.
And then we different which division of the nervous system we rely on more parasympathetic or sympathetic. And again, that's a difference between the side that revs us up. And energizes us and the side that helps us relax and reflect in, turn more in word. And then we even use a different primary brain pathway.
So extroverts use a shorter, faster brain pathway and introverts use a more complex brain. Pathway that goes through several different areas the past was it in future? And so I'll see introverts who say, you know, I get frustrated with myself because I need time to process. I wish I could just instantly think on my feet, like some of my expert colleagues or whatever.
And I say, no, that's actually you using that God given more complex brain pathway. And so always give yourself permission to say, Hey, this really matters to me. Just give me a minute to think about it. And it's important for extroverts to know that when an introvert isn't responding immediately, it's because they're processing, they're not holding back.
They're just going through that processing. So like in a meeting where you have. Someone say, Hey, I have a great idea. That's probably extrovert, you know, short, fast pathway. And then an introvert says, okay, let's think through what needs to be in place for that to happen. Then the expert says, all right, it's time to make a decision.
And then where it says I'll follow up and see, you know, and so you can see in a situation. Yeah. I like that. How the two work really well together. Yeah. And again, we can both use both sides, but there's just one. We tend to lean toward a little more naturally. That's so interesting because as I'm just sitting back thinking, you know, okay.
In different areas of my own life, if I'm talking about something creative, like I can spit ball stuff all day long. And I love that. But now let me think about my marriage. And I think about something more, or like, let's say I get in an argument with my husband. Like I need some time to process and we come back to that a lot because my husband is an extrovert and, and there have been many times where I've had to say, like, I just need, I need some time before we come back and talk about this again, or, you know, whatever.
And so for me, That's where I see like the differentiator, I think in different areas of my life. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Cause you do have access to both. We, again, we all use both pathways. There's just one kind of, if we're put on the spot that naturally kind of activates. Quicker where it's more likely to be our go to, but we can definitely use the secondary one as a backup or in certain situation where it's a better fit.
Yeah. So yeah. So again, the whole thing of it's introvert and extrovert, it's not all or nothing. We all have access to all these things. It's just about which one we naturally lean toward. Yeah. And for I'm thinking, even in another part of a lot of personality tests is like, Thinking versus feeling for me as I think about those things.
I think if I'm in my thinker part of my brain and I feel a freedom to just fail or be wrong or not have to get it right the first time I say it, then I'm good with that. But if it's something where words really matter, and it's more of like a feeling type conversation, that's where I think I also maybe.
Need time. Yeah. I don't know. I think even asking ourselves, okay. You know, knowing that in any given situation, I can pull on either side of who I am, like, which one do I want for the situation? Like when I go to a conference and I need to be on that, I'm going to say, all right, I'm going to sort of activate the extrovert part of me for this situation for a certain period of time, you know, knowing that it's not going to be sustainable.
Well for me forever and ever, but I can totally do it for the two weeks hours that I need to. And so I think we can look at parts of our personalities as limitations when really they're just options. You know, like probably an introvert isn't going to want to live at a party 24 seven. No one is, but can we do it when we need to?
Absolutely. And vice versa is an extrovert gonna want to sit in silence. You know all the time. No, but can you do it when it's important? Of course you can. Yeah. And so just knowing where our natural strengths lie, but also understanding we have access to so much more than just those drinks. Yeah. And that brings me to self awareness.
Right. That's a huge piece of all of this. It's so crucial to this whole conversation. And what listeners may or may not know is you're also a life coach. And so I'd be curious what you would share tools that you might be able to share that you think have been helpful to increase. Self-awareness kind of in this whole conversation.
Well, I think we can approach life in three different ways from a place of self-focus self-criticism or self-awareness. And so cell focus is it's all about me. It's pride, self criticism is it's never about me. I'm criticizing myself all the time and then self awareness. It's just an, a. Understanding who God made us in a way that empowers us to better love and serve those around us.
And so I think self-awareness a lot of people think, Oh, that's selfish, but it's not. They're thinking of self focus or they're worried about getting dragged into self criticism, but self-awareness is just stewarding well, who God made us. It's just part of understanding our gifts and strengths so that we can use them.
And so I think there are a lot of practical tools that help with that. And of course the Myers Briggs is a great personality tests. Yeah. We'll give people not only are you an introvert or extrovert, but some elements of personality, like you mentioned, thinker feeler. I think that any Agram is a popular tool right now that gives us insight into our, some of our motivations.
I love one that a lot of people haven't heard of is the four tendencies quiz by Gretchen Rubin. And it tells you how you respond to inner and outer expectations. And so I especially recommend it. If someone is having trouble getting themselves to do something they want to do, it is probably because.
They're not in alignment with their tendency. And so that's a great little tool. And then I think the five love languages, which most of us are familiar with, but understanding retaking that and looking at it from the perspective of how is this different for introverts and extroverts, because it's not just what love language do you speak, but what volume do you need?
It's spoken in a way that looks really different for introverts and extroverts. That's interesting. Yeah. Okay. I have so much homework to do so good. I don't know Holly, if we've talked about this, but what's your Enneagram number? High enough, Jay. Wait, sorry. Are you, so there you go. Yeah, really similar different that is similar.
Sorry. Okay. Okay. 39 wing. So you could see that. Yeah. Okay. So like we talked about earlier, you know, one of the things that got really put on your heart is just to be able to being able to create more meaningful connections with introverts in our lives. And so I'd love for you to share what do you believe we can learn from introverts as extroverts that will help us have more meaningful connections in our lives.
Well, I think we live in a time in history when we are really pushed to have quantity of relationships that we need to connect with everyone all the time, everywhere beyond social media, 24, seven and introverts are naturally drawn to quality over quantity and relationships. And a lot of that has to do with how we're wired more impacted by external stimulation, which is anything coming into our brains, our nervous systems from the outside.
And so, so having fewer people who are very simulating our lives, it's just a better fit for us. And so we tend to want to go deep instead of wide. And to focus, it's more on quality over quantity. And of course, extroverts do that too. I mean, some of the most loving, meaningful relationship filled people I know are extroverts, but if we're just talking about temperament in.
Big generalities. I would say that is something, one that is diverts can say it's okay then I'm that way. Cause a lot of times they feel guilt or shame about not being everywhere all the time with everybody. Yeah. Or if extroverts are in a place where they're feeling overwhelmed, By the amount of people in their life or the amount of socializing they're expected to do to take their key from introverts and say, it's okay if I want to just focus on kind of my people and let some of these other things go.
Yeah, that's interesting. And I could totally see that. And one thing you said in that, that I would love to debunk is the introvert shame. So I think that is, that is such a thing. And. I don't know. How would you encourage somebody maybe on either side, if they are an introvert or if they love an extrovert too, to rid themselves of that?
So hard. I think, especially in faith culture, we can get really confused about thinking my love for God and people is measured on the amount of relationships I have. Not the depth or quality. And so when I looked into scripture, see if I could find anything like that, I didn't find quantity anywhere. Like in first Corinthians 13, the love chapter, it says love is patient love is kind.
Those are all verbs that you use one person at a time. And so it's about how we treat whoever is in front of us in any given moment. That might be one person, or sometimes it might be a thousand. And so just reframing that saying, it's not about the amount of people in our lives. It's about how we treat each person, God, places in our path.
Yeah. And also that if we connect with God in different ways, then some of what we see around us that's okay too, because. I tell people think about how you feel closest to others in your life. So for me, it's having coffee with one person where I can fully focused and engaged, you know, in a meaningful way.
And so one day I thought, why don't I have coffee with Jesus? You know, this is the way he's wired me to be. And honestly, that's what I do. And I. I feel his presence a lot more than when I'm in a worship service, surrounded by a lot of people and loud music. I can get distracted and overwhelmed. And for a long time, that made me feel like maybe I'm not a good Christian.
I create, I connect with God in the way he created me to. Connect with him. And that doesn't mean I don't engage in other ways, but I can let myself off the hook for saying this this particular way is how I have to feel closest to him because it looks like how other people do. So just saying who to God make me to be, how did he create me to love and then giving yourself permission to lean into that?
No matter what other people are telling you, it has to look like. Yeah. And that brings me back to your subtitle, which is why the world needs you to be you. And I love that because I think everything we're talking about brings us back to, you know, when we see. All of this through the right lens, it brings freedom.
And in that freedom, we're able to serve others better and bring goggles in a more full way that he designed us to do. This is, this is so good. I'm so excited for people to jump on this. And I actually posted a picture on Instagram this week. Just have some book covers of authors. I was talking to this week and I had several people, either DME or comment on the post.
Oh wow. I'm excited to read the introvert book. This sounds all. Yay. You really need. And so I'm just really pumped for this to go out into the world and listeners will be able to check it out by the time this comes out, which is great. So Holly, I'd love for you to share, um, where they can take your super quick quiz, where they can get in contact with you, order the book, all those things.
Yes, we can go to my site. Holly girth.com. If you want specifically the introvert things. It's Holly girth.com/introverts, and the quiz is on my side. So you can take it. It takes one minute. Then you can share your results and see what your friends are too. And if they get it, when this airs, they can still get the preorder bonuses.
That'll be the absolute last week that they're available. So if they. Get the book, they also get a new mini course. I created called seven ways to thrive as an introvert Aussie and a free introvert strengths assessment and a free audio version of the book. Yes. It's like a lot of things. So, and if you gift.
The book to someone else, who's an introvert in your life. You can gift the bonuses also. Awesome. So for extroverts wanting something super awesome to gift an introvert, they love and want to support that. That is totally doable too. So yeah, I would love for everyone to come by and check all of that out.
Cool. Awesome. Well, Holly, this has been so much fun. We will have to do it again. My listeners love you, and it's great to have you back and thanks for being my guest today. Thanks Rebecca.